So, the US isn’t a Christian nation, huh?

We’ve got a special guest post by our friend Rosetta, at The Hostages. And for all you with a contrary opinion, he’s actively looking for trolls there…

I heard something yesterday that made the hair I don’t have on the back of my neck stand up. Here it is. Go to 3:30 if you just want the meat and not the majority of the embarrassing blather.

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni4X9Be-wwA]

For being the smartest man in the world, President Obama, you sir, are a fucking idiot. Not only are you ignorant of basic U.S. history and religious tolerance, you’re an incompetent communicator.

While speaking in Turkey yesterday you could have and should have acknowledged the history of our country and given proper tribute to the religious basis of our founding but I suppose the TOTUS didn’t so instruct you.

I’m pretty sure that we are more tolerant of other religions than any other superpower. Oh wait….we’re the only superpower. I’m sure that’s a coincidence and that the freedoms we enjoy in this country, granted us by our Creator, have nothing to do with our status as the greatest nation in the history of the world.

We are not like Turkey, Mr. President. Our nation in fact was founded on Christian values which in fact does make this a Christian nation. I would assume that you have a basic understanding of those Christian values which you profess to believe when convenient and ignore when not, including yesterday in Turkey.

In all your blinding brilliance you were unable to admit and clearly communicate two basic but fundamental facts about our history and our nation: (A) we were founded as a Christian nation and (B) we don’t kill people because of their religious views as they do in Turkey. Those statements are neither complicated nor offensive and they both happen to be true.

The fact that you weren’t properly equipped to communicate that, either from ignorance (ohai, Harvard) or your apparent desire to separate yourself and this nation from its Christian heritage, proves that you are less than a scholar, less than an intellectual and less than a proud Christian.

How difficult is it to state the historical reality that, in fact, we are a Christian nation. We were founded on Judeo-Christian values and, according to those racist, slave-owning signers of the Declaration of Independence, our rights are endowed upon us by our Creator.

And unless you have historical documents that no one else has, I’m assuming those racist, slave-owning founders meant that our rights come from the Christian God, not Muhammad. Hey! Look what I found.

For you, President Obama, to deny a seminal fact of our creation as a nation renders you an embarrassed Christian, a historical ignoramous, an international coward or all of the above.

Despite your protestations to the contrary, we are, and for most people proudly so, a Christian nation that celebrates freedom of religion. The fact that we are more tolerant of other religions, as well as the soulless practitioners of atheism, than any other nation on earth is a tribute to the fact that we have freedom of religion in this country, not a lack of Christianity in our founding, you utter dunce.

For you not to possess the ability to distinguish between us being a nation that imposes Christianity on its citizens, which we are not, and a nation that was founded on Christian values and is the shining beacon of religious freedom in the world, which we are, makes me happy I graduated from a state university. In five years.

I shudder to think what would have happened if the community you organized was the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia.

Enjoy your four years in office, Stuperman.

Who would have thought that 4th grade history would be your Kryptonite.

As the brilliant Mrs. Rosetta has observed, “Being that we are not a Christian nation, it seems odd that our markets are closed on Good Friday.”

18 thoughts on “So, the US isn’t a Christian nation, huh?”

  1. Perhaps he spent to much time listing to his looney pastor Jeremiah Wright.
    I regret the vocal majority of this nation is trending toward a National Religion of Tolerance. Standing for nothing , we fall for anything, and thereby compromise our values.
    It’s nuts.

  2. i met this girl in a bar, who was from indiana, who told me that i would get beat up if i ever went to where she came from. i’m indian. so, yeah i kinda hate midwesterner’s with their fake godliness / christianity.

  3. The problem is not that the U.S. was founded as a christian nation, the problem is those on the right who want to make Christianity the only religion and those on the left at war with Christianity.

    Tolerance came from the Christin bible. The founders quoted God several times, invoked his name several times, yet forbade the government from using relgion as a test of employment (it’s in there, read the Constitution). Washington himself wrote a letter to the Jewish population of New York praising their help during the Revolution.

    The supreme court put up the firewall between the CHURCH and the STATE. Yet every day the bailiffs say “God bless the United States and this Honorable Court.”

    Religion is a fact of light. Trying to use the sate to elevate one religion or snuff out religion is wrong on so many levels.

    I still can’t believe the American people voted for this slop.

    Tolerance is one thing, but a line must be drawn.

  4. As I understand it the US does not have an official religion and is not a Christian nation. It does of course have a very strong Christian history.

  5. Aaron, does the US have an official religion? No. And while the overwhelming majority of the population is Christian, anyone is free to practice whatever faith they choose, or none at all. As a soldier, my commitment to that was as strong as my commitment to any other part of the Constitution.

    But it frankly annoyed me when Obama went overseas and flatly denied our Christian heritage before other nations. I understand why he did it, but that doesn’t mean I agree with his methods.

    When the framers of the Constitution put the “establishment” clause in the First Amendment, they clearly had in mind avoiding the situation that existed in England at that time, where the CoE was the state religion, and Catholics or non-CoE Protestants faced not just discrimination, but persecution by the government. I think a large part of my irritation is the unrelenting assault on faith by many on the left in our nation. I still don’t want the government to endorse any religion, but they are committed to driving any and all Christian references from the public sphere. I just don’t think that was the intent of the Constitution.

  6. As far as I understand it, it’s a secular nation, not a christian one. Sure it’s majority christian, and founded on some christian ideals, but it still means I can choose to not believe in god, and not get stoned.

    If I did that in a religious nation (IE: Iran, Saudiland, etc), I would have been lynched faster than you could say “infidel”.

    And as so far as saying that being a “proud christian” is a good thing, I could say the same thing about a “proud Muslim”, for the same reason.

    The bible has it’s fair share of monstrous passages too.

  7. That ‘girl’ was full of shit, sunny. Maybe you ought try living in the Midwest before you spew bigotry at an entire region of people — just like Obama did.

  8. All of Western Europe, the Commonwealths, Israel and the USA are based in Judeo-Christian beliefs. Even the filthy Marxists (whom you’re helping along with your anti-Christianity bullshit) know that. That’s why leading Marxist, Gramsci, said the Western world would have to be de-Christianized to be conquered by Marxism, which is what this sleeper Obama is trying to do.

    Oh, and I’m an Atheist, by the way, a tolerant Atheist. If you want to live in a country based in Islam, move. If you want to live in a country based in Buddhism, move. Stop crapping up our country and trying to change it.

  9. As far as I understand it, it’s a secular nation, not a christian one. Sure it’s majority christian, and founded on some christian ideals, but it still means I can choose to not believe in god, and not get stoned.

    This misses the point. It is not a secular “nation,” it’s a secular government. When Obama has previously talked about not being a Christian “nation,” he has made it clear that he’s talking about the country, not the government. From <a href=”http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/obama-to-turkey-we-do-not-consider-ourselves-a-christian-nation/”Nice Deb’s:

    Obama made waves last summer when he made a similar comment in an interview with CBN News:

    “Whatever we once were, we’re no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.”

    But it’s not exactly true to say that he ignores our JudeoChristian heritage, I think it’s more true to say that he’s happy to see that heritage being replaced. And what will replace it? Just follow the bows…

  10. Pub, I used to live just outside of Chicago. I’d call that Midwest. To deny that there is racism in the area is to deny reality. Now, most of it was white/black racism, but I’m sure there are plenty of folks there who weren’t keen on brown people either…

  11. In all your blinding brilliance you were unable to admit and clearly communicate two basic but fundamental facts about our history and our nation: (A) we were founded as a Christian nation…

    I’m no Obama supporter, but it seems you are the individual ignorant of history.

    Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously ratified by the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by President John Adams on June 10, 1797, states:

    As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” [emphasis mine]

    …and (B) we don’t kill people because of their religious views as they do in Turkey.

    Oh, we don’t?

  12. Robert, that’s a very interesting quote from the treaty. I’ll pass that along to the author for his thoughts.

    As to the second link, please. That’s stupid. In no way can you use the acts of one deranged person to argue that the power of the state is being used to kill people for their religious views.

    I’ll grant you that Turkey has at least a bit of tolerance toward non-Muslims, and a fair attempt at secularism. And Iran tolerates a very, very small Jewish community (mostly so they can brag about it any time their human rights record is brought up).

    And frankly, the outright hostility from the commenters in the second link was disturbing. There’s a lot of folks there who have read some scripture, but didn’t learn the lesson.

    And finally, re: your post of the Morality of an Atheist, you claim to base your morality on the principal of reciprocity, or the Golden Rule. If that isn’t the second half of the Great Commandment, I don’t know what is.

    “Thou shalt love the Lord, thy God, with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

  13. As to the second link, please. That’s stupid. In no way can you use the acts of one deranged person to argue that the power of the state is being used to kill people for their religious views.

    But the article linked to above provides no evidence that the Turkish government was behind the killings. The Turkish killers may have been just as much deranged loners as the Christian in Denver was.

    And finally, re: your post on the Morality of the Atheist, you claim to base your morality on the principal of reciprocity, or the Golden Rule. If that isn’t the second half of the Great Commandment, I don’t know what is.

    If you inquire into the origins of the ethic of reciprocity, you’ll see that it’s one of the oldest in the world; Jesus was merely commanding what had already been practiced and preached for millenia.

  14. Robert, first, thanks for participating. Second, I would posit that Turkey may not be the best example of a repressive Muslim regime. But you do know there are several other nations that do in fact repress apostates.

    As to the Treaty of Tripoli, one of my friends has previously addressed this. I’m open to persuasion on the topic, but he makes a pretty good point.

    As to the theory of reciprocity, you point out that it has been around for ages. Sure, and taken from a practical point of view, it would normally seem to be the default way of approaching things. As a Christian, I would submit that the instinctive reversion to reciprocity is a part of human nature granted to us by God. When we fail to achieve that, it is a mark of the fallen nature of man.

  15. xbradtc, your friend states

    That means that [Article 11] could not have been a statement authored by elected representatives of our government, meant to be a statement by us, about what we are about.

    He’s wrong. Article 11 was in the text ratified by Congress and signed by the President.

    There’s no way for me to dispute your claim that the ethic of reciprocity is a part of human nature granted to by the [the Christian] God, just as there’s no way you can dispute that it was granted to us by Allah, Zeus, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I will note, however, that this claim conflicts with another Christian claim that we cannot be good without God.

  16. Robert, that’s a very interesting quote from the treaty.

    Not really. Many, many libs have used that quote when discussing this issue, and all have been mistaken in doing so. The quote has nothing to do with Obama’s skewed view.

    When Obama says, “not a Christian nation,” he doesn’t mean, “not a Christian government.” He means that other religions have equal validity in our culture (see quote above). And in saying that, which is philosophically but not historically true, he is quite deliberately courting the favor of non-Christians and poking a stick in the eye of Christians.

    The Tripoli Treaty was meant to emphasize the secularity of the government, but it said nothing about whether Christianity was a dominant driving force in our culture.

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